Moloth - The M-Forums

Sparks wrote:

I think even if magically (lol magic) all churches disappeared, and organized religion had never existed I still think the desire to believe in something greater than ourselves would still be there, so really there would be no change.

One can believe in something 'greater than themselves' and not have to resort to believing in magic.

Our morals, our knowledge, our communities, our nations, our world, our cosmos... they are ALL 'greater than ourselves'.

As an atheist, i DO believe in things that are greater than me. Someone's imaginary friend, however, is the exact opposite of being 'greater' than anybody... its contained completely in an individuals insecurity, fear and imagination.

Sparks wrote:

What I'm getting at is I don't think Religion will ever disappear, and if it did we'd just end up making new ones.

It's going to be hard to beat how the brain is hardwired. http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHF … od+complex

That said, just by knowing there's a "god spot" hardwired into your brain there's a possibility of actually overcoming religious faith.  I know it helped me overcome the thought that there is something larger than me looking after me.  I'm resigned to being a tiny atom floating around in circumstance waiting to move on to make room for other tiny atoms.  Day to day bullshit still pisses me off though.  PISSES.  ME.  OFF.

...heh

Cin wrote:

Sparks wrote:

What I'm getting at is I don't think Religion will ever disappear, and if it did we'd just end up making new ones.

It's going to be hard to beat how the brain is hardwired. http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHF … od+complex

That said, just by knowing there's a "god spot" hardwired into your brain there's a possibility of actually overcoming religious faith.  I know it helped me overcome the thought that there is something larger than me looking after me.  I'm resigned to being a tiny atom floating around in circumstance waiting to move on to make room for other tiny atoms.  Day to day bullshit still pisses me off though.  PISSES.  ME.  OFF.

...heh

Day-to-Day stuff IS life.

Im glad that i've reached the point that knowing that i am merely a mote in the cosmos gives me MORE comfort than 'perspective shock'.

Sparks wrote:

Do you think we will ever stop destroying ourselves though Scott?

I've personally watched too many series of Gundam, and read too many Battletech books to think war and self destruction will ever go out of style

I've personally watched too many episodes of My Little Pony, and read too many bedtime story books to think war and self destruction will last forever.

Clearly, basing our philosophies of the ultimate destiny of mankind on popular media is a reasonable, realistic thing to do... Who needs history, sociology, genetics, or social engineering theory?

I don't think "ZOMG War is soo popular in media right now this will last forever'.  Gundam and Battletech, along with many other authors, writings of history and fiction alike, deal with the nature of war and desire deep in the heart of man to create conflict.

Conflict is not necessarily war. conflict, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. great innovation and growth can come from conflict. It is GOOD that two ideas clash and compete. Science, for instance, is FULL of conflict.

We already have weapons that could easily wipe out life on earth.  We don't because for the moment we all live here and need the earth for our own motives.

We dont, only because the 'other guys' have them too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction

What happens when go out to the stars and live across hundreds of thousands of planets.

We will have obviously solved a whole host of human issues in order to reach that point.

The use of fantastic firepower will not be withheld because the after effects have no bearing on the planet I live and rule from.

Right, so why exercise it? If it would have no effect, why do it? i could beat up a 5 year old in a park, and not get caught, but what would i have to gain? Also, because you put the idea of you ruling a planet in my mind, i'm imagining your head on this guy:

We will never not have to fight over resources, because enough is never enough and people will always want more.

When was last time you attacked your neighbor for water?
Or had to kill someone so that you could take their food for yourself?
With the proper technology, infrastructure and society, there ARE resources that are enough.

If we have the technology and understanding of the natural sciences enough to have interstellar travel, we will no longer have to worry about such petty things as resources. To get to that point technologically, we'd HAVE to have all of the technologies to support it. Those would include both material production and energy production.

We're already working on molecular fabricators. The replicators of Star Trek (since we're in the vein of using popular science-fiction as a basis of our species future) all but eliminate the environment that breeds competition for material wealth or resources.

Now, if fighting over resources is old n' busted, there's always fighting over ideology... whether it be religious, political, racial or geographic/cultural.

These, too, are slowly dying out. Despite what you see on the evening news, the world is a VASTLY more peaceful place now than it has ever been. There are still wars, invasions and the occasional ethnic cleansing, but those are well(over?)-documented, isolated incidents... the weather, not the climate, if you will. On the grand scale, human civilization is making leaps and bounds in the way of peace.

As we continue to increase our 'civilization technologies', like food production, processing of clean water, medical science, sociological/political structures and communication/transportation infrastructures, PHYSICAL, ORGANIZED, LARGE-SCALE VIOLENT conflict has, and will continue to, diminish.

War is not universal. Only in our small, myopic worldviews as individual, short-lived humans do we get convinced that it is. There will come a time that there will nothing worth killing over.

Sparks wrote:

Moloth wrote:

Only in our small, myopic worldviews as individual, short-lived humans do we get convinced that it is. There will come a time that there will nothing worth killing over.

I'm so glad you are an immortal that knows the future.

I'm so glad that you think sarcasm and Ad Hominem comments have any place in an adult, intellectual discussion.

150 years ago, Africans were still being brought over to North America to be slaves.
50 years ago, they weren't allowed to drink from the same water fountain as whites.
Today, we have a black President.

I could describe the countless ways humanity has made progress towards peace, tolerance and secularism but, i think the facts are obvious enough. There is a trend. The climate of human existence is changing... just as it has been for the last 15,000 years since the Agricultural Revolution. There is a trend of progress.

Just as 3.5 billion years ago, no one could've guess that the simple, self-replicating proteins that existed on a young planet could eventually evolve into the sentient, tool-using, communicative beings having this very discussion.